The Thrive Collective with Rob Hughes

Dr. JJ Peterson (of StoryBrand) on Building the Sales Funnel

August 11, 2021 Season 2 Episode 7
The Thrive Collective with Rob Hughes
Dr. JJ Peterson (of StoryBrand) on Building the Sales Funnel
Chapters
The Thrive Collective with Rob Hughes
Dr. JJ Peterson (of StoryBrand) on Building the Sales Funnel
Aug 11, 2021 Season 2 Episode 7

Who is JJ Peterson and StoryBrand?

Since 2013, Dr. J.J. Peterson has used the StoryBrand Framework to help thousands of organizations clarify their message in order to grow their business. With Donald Miller, Dr. Petersen co-authored Marketing Made Simple, a step-by-step guide to building a sales funnel that works. He holds a PhD in Communication and has spent the last 20 years practicing and teaching communication theory. J.J. has studied C.S. Lewis in Oxford, debated theology with filmmakers at the Sundance Film Festival, directed a documentary, served in marketing and PR for two multinational non-profit organizations, served as a communication professor, and has spoken to thousands of people about creating a clear message. As the Sr. Director of StoryBrand, J.J. travels around the world facilitating StoryBrand workshops and keynotes, helping people grow their business.

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Show Notes Transcript

Who is JJ Peterson and StoryBrand?

Since 2013, Dr. J.J. Peterson has used the StoryBrand Framework to help thousands of organizations clarify their message in order to grow their business. With Donald Miller, Dr. Petersen co-authored Marketing Made Simple, a step-by-step guide to building a sales funnel that works. He holds a PhD in Communication and has spent the last 20 years practicing and teaching communication theory. J.J. has studied C.S. Lewis in Oxford, debated theology with filmmakers at the Sundance Film Festival, directed a documentary, served in marketing and PR for two multinational non-profit organizations, served as a communication professor, and has spoken to thousands of people about creating a clear message. As the Sr. Director of StoryBrand, J.J. travels around the world facilitating StoryBrand workshops and keynotes, helping people grow their business.

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Rob (00:02):

StoryBrand his very own. Dr. J J Peterson teaches the anatomy of a story branded sales funnel today on the Thrive Collective

Rob (00:15):

Well entrepreneurs, small business owners and leaders. Welcome to the Thrive Collective today is going to be such a fun episode. I'm so glad that you're tuning in Dr. J J Peterson is in the house today. Literally wrote the book on how to build a sales funnel that works for your small business. Today is going to be a riot. I am so excited to have Dr. JJ with us, just a little bit of an introduction for Dr. JJ since 2013, he's used the story brand framework to help thousands of organizations, small business owners in leaders clarify their message in order to grow their business with Donald Miller, Dr. Peterson, co-authored marketing made simple a step-by-step guide to helping you build that sales funnel that works. He holds a PhD in communication and has spent decades teaching communication theory around the world. And today as senior director of StoryBrand, Dr. JJ Peterson does travel around facilitating StoryBrand workshops, keynotes and helping small businesses grow. And today we're so excited to have him on the Thrive Collective with you. So welcome Dr. JJ Peterson to the show. Thanks

Dr. J J Peterson (01:37):

So much, Rob. I am so excited to be here every time I, uh, you and I get to work together a little bit here and there. And every time we're on camera together, cause we haven't been together in a year and a half. It makes me so happy. So I'm so excited to be here and hang out with you for a little bit.

Rob (01:53):

Oh, it's, it's such an investment into the entrepreneurs, small business owners and leaders as well. So thank you my dear friend. So JJ, you and I know each other and have for some time and I feel very blessed by that, but some of the folks tuning in may be meeting you for the very first time. So before we kind of kick into our topic today, I'm just really curious. What's your story? How would you kind of give us a little context? What brought you in what is for some of the might be asking? What is StoryBrand? We talked about a lot of episodes, but just love to hear it from you the Yoda. So what, give us a little context, brother StoryBrand

Dr. J J Peterson (02:29):

Really is all about helping companies clarify their message because so many companies, especially when they're getting started and even just leaders have a hard time communicating to an audience in a way that actually increases engagement. And we would say they actually, most of them don't even know it, but they're telling the wrong story, right? They're trying to get people to do things, move them to action by engaging by buying products or just even as a leader, trying to move and cast a move a company forward. But so many of them are telling the wrong story. And so what StoryBrand does is comes in and says, here's how story works. There's story is really formulaic. So here's the formula. And really story is the best way to get people's attention and motivate them to move forward. And there's a ton of research behind that, but this is how story works.

Dr. J J Peterson (03:22):

And then this is the story you should be telling within your organization. And so that's kind of the basic premise is people have a hard time communicating in a way that engages people and move them forward, changes their actions and story is the way to do that. So we teach people how to do it. So it's interesting for me is my undergrad is in public relations and communication. And so I actually graduated from college and went to work for a nonprofit that builds homes in Mexico. Well really all over the world and did marketing and branding for them. And then ended up kind of a wild journey. I became a pastor for a while and then did improv comedy for a while and worked in Hollywood for a little while, and then went back into the nonprofit space and ended up working for an organization that does community development in eight different countries in Africa, and then taught communication, ended up teaching public speaking, and marketing at a university and became Dean of students.

Dr. J J Peterson (04:23):

And it always kind of felt like my life was a little bit, you know, I'm here, I am a pastor and then I'm working in Hollywood and here I am, you know, raising funds for nonprofit and then I'm doing comedy and all of these, it kind of felt like all over the place until actually I came to StoryBrand and how that happened was I was Dean of students at a university in Southern California. And as you do in Southern California, I sold a reality television show and the show is called Batman brothers. And the premise was that my brothers and I, who also are both ordained pastors, uh we're so not bad a that we couldn't even say the word and the way that we would up our bad a reputation is we would travel around the United States and find those old, weird laws that are still on the books.

Dr. J J Peterson (05:13):

Like you can't cross the Minnesota border with a duck on your head, or you can't have an ice cream cone in your back pocket in Atlanta. And we would research the history behind those laws and then break those laws. So we could be more bad. A and um, so I had sold that show to a production company and I invited Donald Miller out kind of as a last hurrah for myself to speak at the university that I was at. I was like, he's my favorite author. I'm going to have him come speak to my students as my farewell. We just hit it off and became friends. And I started saying, I'm branding this television show. And he said, well, I'm launching this new thing that helps companies clarify their message. And he said, why don't you come out and test it with your show? And so I came out to Nashville from LA and I started clarifying my own message through this framework.

Dr. J J Peterson (06:06):

And it blew my mind here. I had been doing communication for 20 years, whether it was preaching or teaching or trying to write emails that raised funds or campaigns or create websites for nonprofits. And I genuinely thought I was an expert in all of this stuff and then came to StoryBrand and was blown away. And I wish I had this last 20 years, you know, when I was sitting there writing emails, trying to figure out how to get people to donate to this nonprofit or create a website, or even just like, as Dean of students, get all the students on board with the new direction, we were headed with a vision. And I immediately actually stopped working on my own story and my own brand at that workshop. And I started helping everybody around me cause I was like, I get this. It makes sense to me, I've studied story.

Dr. J J Peterson (06:59):

He just made it simple. And so I started helping other people and he was like, I'm teaching by myself right now. Would you mind coming out to Nashville and every once in a while and helping. And so I did, so that's kind of the long story, but that's how I got to where I am. And I had always thought my life was very kind of eclectic and all over the place. And as I got to StoryBrand I realized that it was always about story. It always was whether I was doing nonprofit work and trying to engage people in the story of their lives being changed by being engaged or the lives of the people who we were serving, whether it was doing comedy or working in Hollywood, teaching people how to communicate better or just preaching. Every single thing I did was try to learn how to tell story better and help other people tell story better.

Dr. J J Peterson (07:50):

In fact, my master's is in theology and the arts. So it's actually a study of story in film, television music. My master's thesis was a 30 minute sitcom. That was an exegetical tool for the book of Ecclesiastes. That's, that's literally what I wrote as my master's thesis was how to tell the book of Ecclesiastes is in a sitcom form. You know, it's always been about that. And now I feel incredibly lucky that I get to share this tool that I discovered, um, you know, now seven years ago with people all over the world and I get to help them clarify their message, invite their customers or their audience. I'll probably use customers a lot in this podcast, but when I use the word customers, I really mean your audience. So whether you're a leader or you're just getting started out, or you've been in business and nonprofit for a long time, when I say customers, really what I mean is audience. And so any time you want to engage your audience, you want to be inviting them into a beautiful story, not just telling your story, not just trying to convince them of something, but inviting them into a beautiful story where their lives are changed because they're engaged with you.

Rob (09:05):

This framework works, and I love the backstory for you of experiencing the clarity of that. And now you get to be the primary champion overseeing really the, the arm of business made simple, which is StoryBrand, uh, and really that's kind of your baby. Now. It's so exciting to see that. Yeah,

Dr. J J Peterson (09:24):

I feel really blessed. I'm lucky to be able to do it because it changed my life and I immediately want to help other people. So it changes theirs.

Rob (09:32):

Well, I'll tell ya, our lives have been changed as a StoryBrand certified agency and guide, you know, we've worked with well over a hundred companies around north America, helping them implement this framework. And we're one agency. There are many others as well. So really the impact of this is thousands, tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of companies that have been totally impacted and changed for the better as a result. What's interesting is they come in with a common problem, this whole messaging idea. And I think, you know, here we are today, talk about sales funnels. Why is it that building a business at a distance online? Why does that seem like rocket science to someone who's not familiar with a process? And what kind of challenges from your perspective, have you worked with thousands of businesses? Have you seen that really prevent companies from able to build in the digital marketing space, uh, their business? Well, well, I think

Dr. J J Peterson (10:29):

A lot of it, especially for entrepreneurs, let's start there and entrepreneurs and leaders, we didn't go to school for marketing, right? So that first off just the word and phrase feels really overwhelming. So the idea of, I need to write a sales funnel. A lot of people are nervous to even start with one email, let alone, you know, five or six. And so I think that's one is the first thing is it just feels overwhelming and it feels intimidating cause we have to get it right. There's so much at stake in our businesses, right? Like, especially if you're leading a business, you are responsible for people's salaries and moving people forward. And a lot of people took a risk to be with you. So you, I know you feel that pressure going like, all right, we got to get the right words to do the right thing, to build the business and move people forward.

Dr. J J Peterson (11:16):

So that's really a big thing is I think people feel intimidated and they don't know where to start. The other thing is, and this is maybe part of my projecting because it's my own insecurity is that I never necessarily considered myself a salesperson or a marketer because I actually had a negative connotation of those two people, even though now my favorite people in the world are marketers. And I am a marketer. I think when I started out, I was like, oh, I don't want to be that guy. I don't want to be the person. That's always just pushing it in an essence, almost begging people to be involved and coming from a place of being in leadership myself, you know, there's a lot of times where say you're at a church and you're building a new campaign for a new building while you're feeling like, oh, we have to get everything up again and beg people to give money.

Dr. J J Peterson (12:05):

Or, you know, when you're doing a business, you're like, oh, how do we get more people to buy and buy more? And it just feels sometimes it can feel a little slimy when you try to like create a situation where people are giving you money in any context, right. At least that's for me, that's for me that again, that may be my own projection, but I think a lot of people feel that like, well, I'm not a sales person. And if I am, I don't want to be quote unquote salesy. So even creating a sales funnel feels weird to me that I'm going to actually get people's email addresses and then sell them something by sending them emails that feels gross. And the reality is when you're telling the wrong story, it is gross. That's the truth. It is kind of gross when you're trying to convince people and almost when, in comparison to your customer, right?

Dr. J J Peterson (12:55):

If you're trying to win by getting more money from them than it is gross. But if you're telling the right story and by that, what I mean is so many companies try to position themselves as the hero in the story, right? So they really try to say, we are the best and we're the greatest. So give us money. And that makes you the hero of the story. But the reality is every human out there wakes up as the hero in their own story, right? We perceive ourselves as the hero. My life is a movie about me and not even in a selfish way, it's just the way that I live, right? I'm the hero of my own story. So if I'm the hero of my story and a company positions themselves as a hero in their story, then we are in competing stories. We actually, one of us has to win and one of us has to lose cause we're in competing stories.

Dr. J J Peterson (13:47):

But what the StoryBrand framework does is teach you to position yourself as the guide in your customer story. So your customer is the hero always, and you are their guide. You are Yoda and they are Luke Skywalker. You are Gandalf and they are Frodo. So you invite them into a story where you get to play their guide and your whole job is to help them win. And the way you help them win is by solving their problems. So when you begin to understand story in a new way, and you understand, I am not the hero of my story. As a leader, as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, you are not the hero of your story, your audiences, your customer is. And when you can position yourself as their guide, that your entire job is to help them win first, not only does that give you a framework for how to communicate.

Dr. J J Peterson (14:42):

So it makes it easy, which is what, you know, I said, a lot of people are guessing at what they need to write. And it's very intimidating when you have a framework, you know how to communicate. And then secondly, it doesn't position you as sleazy or in competition with your customer. You genuinely are trying to help them win. The more they win, the more you win. And so that's why StoryBrand for me is so powerful is because all of that stuff you said is for so many people, it's so intimidating to build a sales funnel, but it's because I think we have to have a paradigm shift about what a sales funnel is for.

Rob (15:15):

That is so powerful. GJ, as I reflect on that mindset shift kind of feels like those two personas. If I told you I had a car salesman and a school teacher knowing nothing else, who do you trust the teacher, the teacher. Why? Because they want something for you. Yes. What the car salesman wants something perceived from you. And so we instantly have our guard ups. I hear you with that mindset shift of moving into that, that school teacher mentality of really genuinely wanting to make relationship deposits, problem, solution deposits, really helping your ideal audience, the Thrive Collective pay attention to that. That's a, that's a pro tip. That's gold right there. Pivoting the message.

Rob (16:02):

Hey, just want to tell you about a cool resource. We just built for you. When people ask you, what do you do? How do you answer? See a one-liner is a three-part messaging framework that can help you answer with clarity and more importantly, draw the attention of your ideal audience. Need help creating your response, go to Hughes, integrated.com forward slash one dash liner to download our free guide today.

Rob (16:33):

Okay. So whether we call it us, I mean, it is the anatomy of the sales funnel of a StoryBrand and sales phone. That's what we're here to talk about the different components of that. But I love going into this conversation with that relationship mentality, truly wanting something of benefit for the ideal avatar who we're trying to serve. So under the hood, then Dr. Peterson kind of share with us, what is the anatomy? What components are necessary for a sales funnel that works

Dr. J J Peterson (17:03):

You're dead on. When you say that really any type of relationship that you're building, whether it's with your team members like internally. And so you're leading a team or your audience, as far as customers, it's all about relationship and building a relationship and ultimately building trust. Right? And so I like to look at even relationship with our customers in some ways like every other relationship that we develop, like let's start with a dating relationship, right? So if I'm looking to date somebody, typically what happens is let's say I go to a party and I'm at a friend's house. And I see somebody across the room that I'm intrigued by, right? Because I start to hear a little bit of their story and I go, oh, they studied in France that's and I'm attracted to them and everything. And what that phase of relationship is this called curiosity.

Dr. J J Peterson (17:56):

So every good relationships starts with curiosity where you start to become curious about the person. And this is true for a dating relationship. It's true for a business relationship. You have to start with building curiosity, helping people become curious in the product that you have, and the problem that, that product solved. The second phase of relationship is enlightenment. So again, I'm interested in this person at a party. I see them, I start being curious, I ask a few questions and then I say, Hey, let's go on a date and you go on a date. And on those dates, you're starting to learn more and more and more about this person. You're becoming enlightened about them. And you're drawn in even tighter. Well, it's the same thing with a business relationship. After somebody becomes curious, you actually have to educate them about what you do, the way you do it in a clear and compelling way that builds enlightenment.

Dr. J J Peterson (18:54):

You're teaching them about who you are and how you can serve them. Well, and then the third phase of the relationship is commitment. So those are the three levels of relationship, curiosity, enlightenment commitment, and in commitment, again, at some point you need to do something, right? You have to like, if you're just, you see those stories all the time of like, oh, well we were dating for 10 years and they go, well, what's his problem? Like there's a problem. You know, if somebody doesn't actually act, or when I was working in at the university, I would see all these students who would hang out together for hours and hours studying. And they're doing this for like months and months and months. And then I'm like, are you guys dating? No. Have you asked her on a date yet? No, what's your problem, dude. Get on it.

Dr. J J Peterson (19:42):

Like you're gonna, at some point, somebody is going to get the guts to ask this girl out and you're going to miss out. Like you have to ask for that commitment or you miss out. And it's the same thing in a business relationship, you have to come to a point and that point can be really anywhere along the journey where, but you need to ask for a commitment. Now, a lot of people try to ask for that commitment too early, which is like asking somebody on the first date to marry you. That works. We've seen it work in movies, right? Of like, oh, we fell in love on the first date. We know those stories, but for the majority of people, it doesn't work that way. You have to start with curiosity, then move to enlightenment and then ask for the commitment. So a sales funnel helps you guide people through that relationship.

Dr. J J Peterson (20:29):

It starts with curiosity then moves to enlightenment and then commitment. So there are five pieces we say as the StoryBrand marketing checklist, really, there are five things that you need in your sales funnel. A one-liner a website, a lead generator, nurture emails and sales emails. So those are really the five things. One-liner website, lead generator, nurture emails, sales emails, and each of those is designed to do something in that relationship building. So a one-liner is basically a way of helping people get curious about what you do. It's the very first base. So everybody that's listening right now, you need to have a one-liner and a one-liner is this, it's just a simple way of explaining what you do and why, what you do matters to the person you're talking to. It invites them into a story and helps them be curious. And there's actually a formula to it.

Dr. J J Peterson (21:26):

So the formula is problem solution result. So just remember that, cause I'm going to walk through them for a second problem solution result. So normally when somebody asks you what you do, you just tell them. So for me, if somebody asks me, Hey, JJ, what do you do? My gut instinct is to just go, I help people with their marketing and branding. That's it. If I say that people become now curious about me as a person. So they will ask questions like, oh my gosh, what companies have you worked with? Oh my gosh. What was the weirdest situation you got into? Where have you traveled around the world? They're asking questions about me because I started with my story. I said, I knew marketing and branding a better way of getting people curious about my business is to start with quote unquote, their story. Their story starts with a problem they're experiencing.

Dr. J J Peterson (22:26):

So somebody says, what do you do, JJ? And I say something instead, like so many companies are struggling in their messaging and marketing because they're telling the wrong story and they're losing money because of it. I work at a company called StoryBrand and I come in and help people clarify message. So they're telling the right story so that they can actually connect more with customers and grow their business. That's a one-liner here. So three parts, problem companies struggle with telling the right story solution. What I do to help and then result what their life looks like after. So let me put that together one more time. So you can hear it, JJ, what do you do? Well, so many companies really struggle with their messaging because they're telling the wrong story and they're actually losing money because of it. So I work at a company called StoryBrand and I come in and help companies clarify their message, using a story framework so that they tell the right story and they actually engage customers and grow their business.

Dr. J J Peterson (23:26):

That's it all that's designed to do is build curiosity. And that is the first part of your sales funnel is building curiosity. So you need a one-liner then from there, what they should do is say, tell me more. And the questions are going to ask are about how to solve their problems, right? Going to go, oh my gosh, my company does that too. They're not going to ask me where I've traveled or what they may ask, what companies I've worked with, but really they're just going to go, oh my gosh, we struggle with that. So you're positioning yourself as the guide already to their story. So everybody on here, you need to right now, even push, pause on this podcast, sorry, Rob, I'm going to push back. That's all right. And what you need to do is you need to think through what problem do you solve for your customer or your audience?

Dr. J J Peterson (24:16):

What is your solution? And ultimately, what does their life look like after they have taken you up on your solution? Problem, solution result. You need to just pause and start brainstorming that because that is the first piece of your sales funnel. And everybody can do that. This will change everything about your business. Then the next phase is you need to create a wireframe website. So you need to create a website that actually tells the right story for your customer. Then from there, you need to create a lead generator. And the lead generator is just something that gets people's email address. And the way you do that is by offering some kind of value, like a video that gives them five tips or a PDF that gives them five tips. Something that, that you can get their email from. And both the website and the lead generator really move people from curiosity to enlightenment.

Dr. J J Peterson (25:13):

The website still does a little bit of building curiosity, especially like the beginning, the header of your website builds curiosity. And then we move people towards enlightenment with the rest of the website and the lead generator. Then the last two pieces of the sales funnel are sales emails and nurture emails, sales, emails, close the deal. They move people into that commitment phase and all you want to do it the easiest way. There's a number of formulas and we've even put a formula in the marketing made simple books. You can go read that, but I'll give you the easiest way to write a sales funnel is just think of the top five reasons why people would not buy your product or service. So maybe it's cost. Maybe it's time. Maybe it's too hard. And this is even the same for say leaders who are like trying to get people to move forward.

Dr. J J Peterson (26:05):

Think of the top five reasons why they would not like, are they uninformed? Are they, is it cost too much? What is whatever that is? And then write five emails that overcome those five objections. So if the first one is cost, so you have an imaginary conversation with your customer, they say to you, well, it's too expensive. Well, just imagine what would you say back to them when they say it's too expensive, you'd probably talk about the value that you bring, how you're saving them time, how you're saving them effort, how this is an investment instead of a cost. All right. So take all of that language and put it in an email. And that's your email is overcoming that objection of cost then same thing. If the second one is time, it's going to take too much time. Well, now you need to just have an imaginary conversation with your customer and say, here's the thing though is once you actually put this time upfront, you're going to save a bunch of time later.

Dr. J J Peterson (27:00):

Not only will you save more time, but it's going to be more effective. So you're going to make more money. All right. That's email number two. So just take the top five reasons why people are hesitant to buy your product or service and then write an email that overcomes those top five. And then finally, the last thing is a nurture email. And the nurture email is kind of like, let's say, they're not ready to buy. You've asked them to buy, you know, you've asked them to marry you. They're not ready to buy yet. They're not ready to commit. All right, we're going to continue dating. We're going to continue the relationship. So that's where a nurture email sequence comes in. And that's where you send basically an email maybe once a week or once a month, depending on your audience. And all you're doing is offering value to them to continue to build the relationship.

Dr. J J Peterson (27:49):

So you're not really asking for a hard sale. You're just going, Hey, by the way, I know you struggle with this. And let's say, you're a nursery like a plant nursery. And you might send out an email. That's like, Hey, you know, as winter comes, here's how to protect your plants. As spring comes, here's how to make sure that you're planting things at the right time. Here's how to make sure your garden is lush and gorgeous. Here's five tips on designing your yard so that it fits your needs. You know, you're just jamming up tips once a week, that offers value. And then at the bottom, you're like, Hey, schedule, appointment, or buy now or come in, but you're not really selling. You're just offering value. So that is the sales funnel. I know I just threw a ton of stuff at you, but that's,

Rob (28:37):

It is. It's like an engine. And once you get this thing set up, it works 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Sometimes we're talking to clients is again, we're StoryBrand certified agencies. We implement these, these tools that JD is talking about. We'll say it can become your MVP team member. Your sales funnel works like a team member, except it's an investment. One time that pays dividends for years, every

Dr. J J Peterson (29:00):

Business has to have this. You have to build relationship with your customer at the speed that they're ready to onboard, which starts with curiosity, moves to enlightenment and then moves to commitment. And you have to be telling the right story. Otherwise you're just noise. You're just adding noise here. That email that comes into their box, that they ignore. Like every other one, you have to position yourself as a guide to their hero and help them overcome their problems. And you do that with a sales funnel. It feels intimidating. And I'm not going to say, it's not going to take work. That's the truth is this will take a little bit of work, but the work is worth the investment because it will it sell in your sleep. And you mentioned this, but I'll, I'm gonna pitch you for a second is that Rob is an amazing guy.

Dr. J J Peterson (29:48):

He's an amazing marketer. Their team creates this. So what we do is we train people to create this. Robin's one of the people who creates this. So if it's even after all this, you're like, I get it. You can hire Rob. So I know Rob, I'm just going to say that because I believe in you and I've seen your work and I know what you do. So, and I'm passionate about this. I don't feel sleazy saying that. I don't feel weird pitching you because I know you are capable of solving their problem. And that's what it comes down to is I used to be so insecure about asking people to buy or asking people to donate or asking even like students to volunteer, right? I used to be like, Hey, we really need a lot of help for preview day. It would really help us a lot.

Dr. J J Peterson (30:35):

If you guys stepped up and it always felt weird. Well, what if I just changed that story and made them the hero, right? And my job is to help them win the day and move their life forward and feel better and solve their own problems. When I tell that story, then I have no problem going. No, no, no. You need to hire Rob, because I know Rob is going to give you a return on your investment. He perceives himself, he looks at himself as a guide and he wants you to win. So when you start telling that story, then I don't, I don't have a problem. I don't feel sleazy. I don't feel weird. I have confidence in the product and service that is being offered. And I actually say, no, if you're not ready for it, that's fine. And when I say, you're not ready for it, that means I'm not your guide. It's not time for this story to happen in your business or life. But if it is, I know I'm going to help you win. And I've no problem calling you to action and asking for that commitment.

Rob (31:34):

Yeah. JJ, first of all, thank you. You know, such kind words and affirming, and quite frankly, your compliment to us is equally a compliment back to you and your team as you guys have taught us so well, uh, through the certification courses at StoryBrand, you know, it's, it's so beautiful. The idea of building relationship at a distance first through curiosity, then enlightenment, then commitment. I am curious about finding more heroes to fill into that funnel, like the outreach and the expansion filling the top of the funnel. Yeah. Just be really curious, just as a kind of a closing question for me, the idea of filling the funnel with more people, what ideas, recommendations or advice would you give to the small business owner that just needs to get seen by more heroes? Yeah,

Dr. J J Peterson (32:17):

The first I would say is clarify your message, clarify your message, figure out what story you're telling and make that story really, really clear, because what that does is it helps you hone in on who your audience is and who you're inviting into the story. Then in the most simple form, go where they are. Right? So figure out where they are. Let's just make it really simple. If you are a peach farm, then you want to be at farmer's markets and you want to be on corners that are high traffic, right? You literally go to where they are physically as a peach farm, but let's say you're not a peach farm. You don't have something physical to sell in that space. You want to still want to think of the same way. Where's the traffic? Where are people going by? Is it LinkedIn? Is it Facebook?

Dr. J J Peterson (33:06):

Is it, you know, where is it? Is it conventions that you need to be at giving keynotes? You need to be where the traffic is. So identify what your, who your story is about, then go to where they are. And I think if you've not started before, then don't feel like you have to be everywhere. Right? Tik TOK is huge right now, 90% of you that are listening to this, don't need to be on Tik TOK. You don't need to be wasting your time on Tik TOK because that's not where your audience is. Now. If you're selling to teenage girls, then you 100% need to be on Tik TOK. But if you're not, then you need to be in LinkedIn. You need to be an Instagram. You need to be places where your audience is. So start there. Don't try to go everywhere, go to where your biggest traffic is.

Dr. J J Peterson (33:50):

Then when you're there, what you need to do is you need to identify how to create curiosity. Now that curiosity can be by offering something free, something of value. So it can be a coupon or it can be a free sample, but it can also be tips and tricks. So for instance, as a marketer, you might put something online that says five ways, your website is losing you money and how to fix it. You're just getting some curiosity out there and you're trying to solve a problem for your customer. You're not necessarily trying to sell your product in that space. You're trying to get people curious. And so you do that with one-liner language, with solving a problem for them. And so you're just advertising lead generators or tips, tricks, something that gets them curious, especially if you have a high-end product, if you're selling something that's a couple thousand dollars or more, most people are not going to buy directly from Facebook for a couple thousand dollar product. So don't sell your products, sell your lead generator. So it's, and what I mean by sell is advertise pitch, your lead generator, get people curious, identify your audience, who is the story about then go to where the high traffic areas are for that audience. And then start by getting them curious, use one Langer language, and then also give them something of value that shows that you can solve a problem.

Rob (35:17):

Us as a brilliant goal, because you know, quite frankly, lot of small business owners listening and think, well, I should be on Facebook. I should be on Google. I should be on this. I should be on this. And if you don't go through the steps of clarifying your message, first, it's going to be like letting the tail wag the dog. You're going to be doing all the things to try to mimic what you see people as peers in your doing without the core reason behind it. The why behind it. When you go through that, to clarify your message, you know who you're talking to.

Dr. J J Peterson (35:44):

And you know, we often say you can amplify your message, but if your message doesn't make sense, it's not going to matter. So you can give a monkey, a Bullhorn and you can make it loud. You can make the monkey louder, but that doesn't mean you're going to get more sales. Right? And that's what so many people do is they don't clarify their message first. They don't tell the right story. And then they just are putting noise out there through a megaphone. That's it? And they're telling the wrong story. So nobody's listening. So that's why it's so important to start there. Then when you get that megaphone, when you get that microphone, you know, that the message is being heard and it's making a difference,

Rob (36:22):

Absolute brilliant goal entrepreneurs, small business owners and leaders. I hope that you will take action on some of the advice that Dr. JJ Peterson is sharing with us today. And, uh, JJ, as a followup from today's episode, first of all, thank you for your investment in the Thrive Collective family. Today. This has been just a treasure of a time together. You've actually got a couple of resources as well, a five minute marketing makeover, and then also marketing made simple. You yourself, you and April sunshine Hawkins, you guys have a podcast that's helping business owners. Maybe just share a little bit about these two resources and how Thrive Collective can tie into them. Yeah. So

Dr. J J Peterson (37:00):

Five minute marketing makeover is a video series. This is part of our nurture campaign. It's our lead generator. And I have, again, I've no problem kind of pulling back the curtain and going, no, we're going to try to sell you something and not to be like a jerk about it, but it's because we believe this will help. So if you go to five minute marketing makeover, first thing you're going to do is you're going to get videos that you will immediately be able to start making a difference in your marketing. But second, you're going to start getting our sales emails. Now here's the thing I would, if you do not have a sales funnel, I would print out those emails. So first, if you want to buy from us and we feel like it's a good fit, great, but here's the other thing, print out the emails and copy our format.

Dr. J J Peterson (37:42):

That alone is a tool for you because I would say study other people's marketing. Who's doing it well. So download the videos. Those are going to give you tips, but this is the insider trick for here is literally just wait till our emails. Come, read them, copy them and use them to build your own sales funnel. So that's five minute marketing make-over dot com go there, sign up. And then secondly is Mar the marketing made simple podcast. And so April sunshine and myself, April sunshine, that is her real name. We started a podcast because we believe marketing should be easy and it should work. Every episode goes into giving tips and tricks, really actionable items that people can do to improve their marketing. Right now, we launched just a couple of weeks ago. So this first series is going through the StoryBrand framework. So if you're going, how do I clarify my message, JJ and Robert saying, I need to have the right story. We'll listen to the first series of marketing made simple the podcast, and you will get the information you need to clarify your message. And then the next series, what we're doing is the sales funnel. So if you want to clarify your message and create a sales funnel, the first I believe 20 episodes ish are going to be about that very thing. So go subscribe to marketing, made simple, and we'll get you marketing. That's easy and works

Rob (39:04):

Amazing. Dr. JJ. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of the entrepreneurs, small business owners and leaders who listened to this show, thanks for your investment with the Thrive Collective family. Today, it's been a joy to have you on. Thanks for having me. I loved it. Okay. Entrepreneurs, small business owners and leaders. You know, this is your show. We're bringing subject matter experts and 10th degree black belt ninjas like Dr. JJ Peterson today, helping you do three things, really three themes. The show is built on revenue generation. Want to help you make more money, avoid costly mistakes, fully integrate your faith into your life and leadership. It's a joy to serve you through this platform and we'll see you at the next episode. Take care, everybody.